This is the third and last part of the transcript of the interview with Inferno Cast.
It covers conversation from just before 50 minutes up until the end of the video.
(Just a reminder again, that the Portuguese (Brazillian) names with an R, is pronounced with and H)
Kaleb: I think that, you know, what you’re talking about, it was difficult in the beginning and then it changes. People misunderstand growth for punishment, in the beginning. And I think it’s like that in everything. I mean, martial arts specifically, where you’re like, “Gosh, I was getting punished”, you know. And people, they see me – almost like, people are actually paying attention to you. You know, when they’re really not.
But you know, they … but they misunderstand growth for punishment and it takes time, and mentorship. Which goes back to what you’d mentioned earlier, which I really loved, was, you know teachers and a Sensei. You know, like we have lots of teachers, but a lot of us kind of have a Sensei, that’s kind of, you know…. one of our more primary influencers. Especially the martial arts world.
I mean, a lot of people, but there’s usually one that’s kind of your …. your …. your main influence or that helps you balance all this information and … And you know, people like that in your life, are the ones that help you understand, that you’re not failing. You’re not being punished. You’re not being humiliated. You’re growing.
Kaleb: And it’s trying to help people see that faster. And I think that goes back to your reference of like, if everybody in the world did Jiu-Jitsu, everything would be so much better. Because that is primarily what I think everybody would absorb, as they would stop the measurement against each other so aggressively.
Kaleb: And it would just turn into like, this growth as a union, as a team. Because I mean, when, you’re in a Jiu-Jitsu gym, like, it gets competitive. Like you’re trying to get each other, but it’s coming from such a different place, than when you’re trying to like, beat somebody. You know, like, “I want to show them, or humiliate them” versus, “No, I just want to give them my best”.
And I feel like that’s the … the transition you see a lot of higher-level athletes hit, toward, like, they appreciate the opponents and the guys showing up, because they are in there to test themselves. And no longer, test the other person. You know, it becomes internal.
Alex: Yeah, it’s funny. Some drive in there somewhere. With a … I think it’s …. I think it’s like an hour and forty minutes or something that Cobrinha and Egan roll … like flow-rolled together. This is, eight years ago maybe. Um … They were just … it was just ……move for move. And like, they were like, both laughing the whole time, and having the best time. And when I watched it, back then, I was like, not that interested.
I love both those men. They’re incredible men. And they’re both like mentors of mine, especially Egan. But I was like, “Okay what are they…?” And now when I watch it today, it’s like, “That’s one of the greatest things I’ve ever seen”. It’s extraordinary, you know. Because, like you said back then, I just want … I wanted to win. I wanted to win all the time. I wanted …um, you know. I wanted to know, that what I was doing was working, you know.
Alex: Yeah. Validation, that’s true.
Kaleb: Welcome to everybody on the planet.
Kaleb: You know, it’s like everybody wants some degree of validation or relevance. And I think they get the two confused. You know, we’re like …. at its truth, validation I feel is something much different than relevance. And especially like, being in the public eye. I’m sure if anybody understands that more than anyone, it’s you.
Um … It’s because people, they get confused once again. I think it goes back to an educational process on almost all of it. Is – I need to understand the difference between, you know, being relevant, just because I’m trying to choke everybody. And I get that …. I become that person in the gym. Always goes hard. Always trying to choke everyone. Versus, you know, seeking some validation, which over time, stops, being the measurement against the people you’re rolling with. It … and it starts being the pursuit of information. You know, the pursuit of excellence.
Kaleb: Knowing you will never be perfect, or probably the absolute best in the world. But you pursue it every day, like, it’s almost at your fingertips right.
Alex: Right, and that also boils another question down. And that is, that it’s like, I think it’s really important on this journey in this martial art, to continually ask yourself ….. check in with yourself, and ask, like, “What do I want? What do I want?”. And especially if you walk in … into a Jiu-Jitsu gym for the first time. If you can, sometimes it’s hard to answer that question like, “What do I want?” .
What do you want? What … what … and …. and … and, this is a Rickson question too. He’s like, when I was training with Ryron and Rener in … in … in his garage. And Ryron was like, “Why do you do Jiu-Jitsu?” And I was like, “What?” I was a purple belt, like, I was almost a brown belt then. And I was like, “What do you mean, dude? It’s my everything”.
And he’s like, “No. why do you do Jiu-Jitsu?” And I was like, “I love it” And he was like, “No. I didn’t ask you how you feel about it. I asked you, why you do Jiu-Jitsu?” Dude, the fuck, I couldn’t answer him, man. I was like, “???”.
Alex: I couldn’t answer him. And he was like, “You know what? When you figure it out, let me know”. And I did. Like, two weeks later. I thought about it every day, and like two weeks later I hit him up. I was like, “Yo, you got a minute?” And he’s like, “Yeah”. I was like, “Ryron, this is why I do Jiu-Jitsu. – Bah, bah, bah, ba, ba”.
It doesn’t matter what the answer is. But I told him my answer. And he’s like, “Beautiful man. You know why you do Jiu-Jitsu”. And it was … it was a pivotal moment for me, because, it made me stop and evaluate…. Because look at this man, like, I’m like, headed towards nine years deep in this thing. Like, in another year …. year and a half, I could have done … man, I could be a surgeon. I could be like … it’s a lot of time to commit to something, man.
Alex: That’s a lot ….. and commit to like every day. And like, it’s … it’s a lot of time. And there’s a lot of energy. You gonna get hurt, man. You’re gonna get hurt. I’ve been really hurt, you know. I’ve been hurt doing other dumb stuff as well. But, you get hurt. And …. it’s a lot of commitment. And .. and … and, it’s good.
For me … For me, anyway. It’s was good to be able to answer that question. Like, “Why do I do this? Why do I … why did I built this? Why do I ……. why do I push this envelope, constantly … constantly ….. constantly?” And I think in the beginning it’s …. it’s different. In the beginning ….
Alex: What I think it’s like, “I was bullied, I don’t want to be bullied anymore. Fuck that. I don’t want … I don’t want, you know, I’ve been beaten up this way.” There’s this one guy that always …. or it’s like, “I want more confidence”. Like you said, or like, “Chicks might dig me more. … if I …. if I have a black belt” or, “I might get laid”.
I don’t know, like, it doesn’t matter.
Alex: It’s like… It doesn’t matter what gets you into the gym. The most important thing is, that you get into the gym. And if once you’re in, the gym, you stay. No matter how humiliating it is. No matter how painful it is. No matter what, but you stay. ‘Cos you got to stay. You got to stay, man.
Kaleb: Yeah. I mean, and just because everything starts shallow. Where it’s like, you come in, you get in shape, learn some moves. Want to be a fighter. And then you start connecting the dots of like, where it’s really coming from, you know. Like, you just keep pulling layers back and that’s where these experience lifers … like they know that.
And …. and that question is probably the most important question, because of what it causes. Like you said, it’s not the answer. It causes that introspection. And that’s what people are spending so little time doing a lot of times. Is, understanding what’s going on, on the inside. Where is this truly coming from? You know, like, what is my intention with …. with doing this martial art? What do I want out of it? What do I want out of life?
Like, just all these questions that, you wouldn’t think you would have, rolling around with guys in Jiu-Jitsu Gi, who is trying to choke each other. But like, it’s the moment between moments. Like, when you’re out there training and rolling, your brain just disengages, for like, past and future. And you just live in that moment, for a short time. And then like, you just get clarity. You know, like, emotional, physical, spiritual clarity almost. Like, it’s a unique thing, that can happen.
Alex: No, it is, man. It’s that … There’s very few things that, that I’ve found in my life, that are … um … that shut everything else out. You know, it’s like, when I’m … when I’m training Jiu-Jitsu… I can walk into the gym with … I mean, someone could have died, right. But it’s gone… it’s gone. When I’m training, it’s gone. It’s pure …. it’s a pure empty mind. And in that sense, it’s like … it’s wild how meditative it is. And that’s like, not … not …. not necessarily … actually no, maybe it was like that in the beginning too – it’s … it’s incredible, man.
It just like clears my head and when I’m done, I’m like, “Oh, I feel so good”. You know, I’m like. “I’ve had my work out. I’ve got like another black eye, but that’ll be okay. I’ve got to drain this ear again. And I think I’m pretty sure this is broken. But I feel fantastic. And I’m not thinking about anything. And I’m pretty sure I had all these problems that I … that I walked in here with, but they’re all gone”.
Alex: And …. and one of the reasons I like climbing. You know, I love climbing, because it .. it has the same effect on my brain. And … diving as well. I love diving. Diving sort of does that ….
Kaleb: Yeah. You know, you talk about all these things that, causes that moment of escape. Especially like, diving just because, you know, the sensor deprivation that just naturally happens.
Kaleb: Like, I really feel like that, that resonates with me. Because that’s almost what it’s like doing Jiu-Jitsu, it’s like a little bit of sensory deprivation of everything else. I mean like, in the moment, you’re paying attention, you’re engaged. And like you said it’s probably always been that way, but maybe we weren’t as aware of it, in the beginning, how much it was helping us kind of, you know, be in the moment and everything else falls away. But later on, you do get very aware of it. But, you know, when you said diving, that really hit me, because it’s like, yeah, I mean that’s true, because everything else is just not impacting you as much … ah …. and it’s almost like, the quiet in the chaos.
Alex: Dude it’s amazing. And I mean, philosophically speaking. Like, if you look at life. Like 10,000 years ago, I … I read something, that once that … that we as a species are only sort of like, five percent different than we were back then. Like we got less hair. And we got ….. ultimately were the same creature. And ten thousand years ago, we ran the earth. Like we woke up in the morning. We collected some rainwater. We were always watching for predators. And we went out and we hunted. And we were ….. if you weren’t …. there was …. there was no ….. I can only imagine. What the fuck do I know?
There was no like, the past and the future. It’s like the moment was so precious, because you could get, I don’t know, a saber-toothed tiger could come and like …. like grab you or something. You know, you’ve got to be on that …. and this morning …. I’m teaching my 11-year-old to …to … to spearfish at the moment. And we were at the front here. And, there’s this little cavern, I like to go and hang out in. There’s all these fish down there. And … and I was just free diving. And I’m just sitting underwater, on these rocks. And I got a bit of camo gear on, so I look like I’m a rock. I probably look like an idiot to the fish. They’re like, “Look at this dude.”
But I’m just sitting there, holding my breath. I’m super calm, because I did a breath-up first. I’m full of oxygen. I’m just sitting there with … with my spear and I’m just watching these fish, and I’m just waiting. And nothing else existed in that moment. And I know this isn’t a spearfishing tutorial. And if it was, you shouldn’t be talking to me about it, because I’m not that good.
But it …. it’s so incredible. Those moments in life are so important for me, because we live in this INSANE world, of like instant gratification. The … the desperate sort of desire for immediacy in everything, is wild, you know. That’s why I don’t … I don’t do social media. I don’t do …. my kids don’t have cell phones. They don’t … you know, we’re trying to like hold all that stuff back. And hold them back from gaming and all ….
Because it’s like, the moments are so precious. And, Jiu-Jitsu gives me my moments back. You know what I mean? And … and when I have my moments and I can be present in my moments, you’re gonna have a really hard time putting me to sleep or breaking my arm, because I’m present. You know, and I’m calm.
Um … and …. if I’m not. If I’m thinking about yesterday or tomorrow. You know, if I’m thinking about how you got to where you are. Or like, what’s going to happen next. Like, I’m in so much trouble. And that’s …. I think that’s one of the great …. that’s one of the things that really attracted me to it. And one of the things that I sort of had some cog…. cognitive grasp on. Early on, I was like, “Oh my god, I feel so present when I’m doing this thing. It hurts. My neck hurts. My …this hurts. And I did something down there. But oh my god I’m so present”.
So, yeah man, it’s pretty special stuff. It’s special.
Kaleb: That … I think that really sums it up extremely well. Because man, that’s the whole thing that … that, we’re kind of looking at exploring is, what happens with the depth of the journey as people get into martial arts. They start, you know, becoming more physical and … and being in the moment. And just shifting priorities.
Because like you said, that the world’s overrun with … with influence. And things that we think that matters, versus stuff that doesn’t matter. And … and it’s difficult to navigate. And there’s a lot of people that don’t have really good skills, or experience to navigate it very well. And I think that’s kind of the … the goal of a lot of martial artists in the world, is they’re trying to help people find those skills through martial arts.
Because there’s other ways to find it. Like you said, you know, climbing and diving. And there’s a lot of things that can help people find their balance in life. But, I just know for me it’s the martial arts. And from talking to you, you know, it seems that it’s been a major influence, or an impact for you. And … and I can really hear the lessons resonate, that people are going to connect with. Because, they’re gonna understand exactly what you’re talking about. Because everybody’s fighting those … those same battles.
Kaleb: You know, man, and that helps. Yeah, that was awesome.
Alex: Yeah, man.
Kaleb: I really appreciate that.
Alex: But I mean…. One thing I didn’t say, is…. And I think this is really important. Like I’m not a competitor. And I stress that. Because sports Jiu-Jitsu is huge. You know, and a lot of people …. a lot of people come into Jiu-Jitsu because they want to …. they want to compete. And they want to win. And that’s …. that’s awesome man.
And some of my close friends are that person, you know. And I can’t really speak to the competition aspect, so much. Just because I don’t … I don’t do it. But, it doesn’t … you know … and … and … and in that world of like, placing and metals and all that, there is the best. You know, but like in anything, the best only last for so long, until the next better guy is around. You know and we all know that. There’s always going to be someone better eventually, you know.
Um … but, we’re all on such different paths, you know. But we walk the road together. And I think that, that’s something that took me a while to get my head around. I was like, “Oh, I got to get as good as like, that dude. And I can’t be. And I can’t wait till I’m a little bit better than that dude here, because he’s already … “ And it’s like the … the moment that I was … I was able to sort of let all that go. And go, “No, none of that fucking matters man. Oh, this is my path. It doesn’t matter. This is my belt. This is my kimono. And this is my game.” Like, once I found that …. which took me …. it took me probably five years to get there.
But once I got there, that was super liberating. Like, I was like, “Oh .. oh I’m gonna do this forever now. I’m going to train forever. Oh, I need to change the way I train. I need to … I can’t train the way I’ve been training, until I’m an old man. Because I’ll be dead in … in 15 years. “
So, all of that … that was a really big shift that happened for me. So I mean, if anybody’s like, white belts or blue belts, or you know, that are experiencing THAT, just don’t trip and … and it’s gonna …. it’s gonna settle in. You know it’s gonna settle in because it does. And when it does, it’s beautiful man. Because it kind of sets you free and you don’t care anymore. You forget what colour is around your waist. You forget how many stripes are on it. It doesn’t matter.
Kaleb: It’s kind like that, you find yourself almost. You know, like … like you finally know who you are.
Kaleb: Like to kind of figure out like, what … what you’re supposed to do. You know, it’s almost like your purpose a little bit. It helps you define it better. You know, maybe not find THE purpose, but you define who you are better and just understanding where you stand. Like, kind of in the world or the universe. Like I mean it’s … I mean it’s … a very … like you said, a very transcendent type of situation that it can occur. That can go as deep as anybody wants to go.
Alex: Like forever and ever.
Kaleb: But you know, on the lighter note. It’s fun. It’s training. You know, we get to choke each other. We attack each other. And you make some of the best friends in the world.
Alex: The best …. the best.
Kaleb: And you’re having a good time. So, on a lighter note, like, do you got anything cooked up. Anything coming up that you’re excited about? Anything you’d like to mention before we get up?
Alex: No. Whatever dude.
No, I’m … I’m so glad to be … Look, I just came off this show for ten years. Which is extraordinary. Like, nothing goes for ten years, anymore. And …. I’ve been feeling a lot of gratitude. I’ve been really kind of, catching those quiet moments in this quarantine … this very odd quarantine period, that we’re all experiencing. And, I’ve been trying to sort of just get quiet and … and do gratitude lists. And it keeps coming up. I’m so grateful for the experience I just had. Because it’s really rare man. It’s rare for an actor to make a living, period. But to have an experience like this, is nuts.
And on the other side of that, I’ve worked pretty hard for the last 10 years. And I’m really experience …. the experience of … of sleeping for like eight hours a night, it’s incredible, dude. It’s like not having to get up at 5:00 every morning, or whatever, it’s … it’s… it’s been a big deal. And getting all this time with my kids. And …. and I’m really missing training. I really, really, really miss training Jiu-Jitsu.
But I got a great gym here and I workout. And, you know, I’ve been, you know, just trying mind, body, spirit, fit the deal. And … and … yeah, who knows man. I’m kind of just to hand it over …. As far as career stuff goes, and trying to hand it over… And, I’m not ….. I don’t know what we want to do. I mean, I guess I wanna keep acting. I don’t know, I …. I’m so, you know, sort of …. I don’t know. We’ll see, man. We’ll see what comes up. We’ll see if I find …
Kaleb: Time will tell.
Alex: Maybe I’ll start writing again, if I get inspired again. I’m just … I’m just …. I don’t know? I’m just in a quiet period. And I want Jiu-Jitsu back.
Alex: I want my Jits back.
Kaleb: That’s it, man. It’s all about rolling. Okay, last. I want to have a little bit of fun. I came up with a fun …
Kaleb: So, you’ve been playing a cop for ten years. You’ve had to learn too many lines and cool stuff. So, I wanted to play – Is this an acronym for Cop stuff, or is this an acronym for Dungeons and Dragons? you all
Alex: Game on.
Kaleb: Right, okay. So, I’m gonna give you the three letters that make up the acronym and then they just use – Cop or D&D
Alex: Okay. Beautiful. Is there a passing grade on this?
Alex: Is there a passing grade on this?
Kaleb: A passing grade? No way, man.
Alex: I am going to fail, but it’s okay.
Kaleb: No, no. No passing grade. Because either way, I think everybody will understand. Because these were hard. Like, I researched, and I was like. “Man this .. uh .. this is tough”. Okay, first one …um … NPC?
Alex: NPC? I don’t think it’s a cop term. NPC … but I’m not a great Dungeons & Dragons. The kids like. NPC? I’m gonna say Dungeons and Dragons.
Kaleb: Bingo. Yeah.
Alex: What is it?
Kaleb: It stands for ‘None Player Character’. Good job.
Kaleb: Okay, okay. You’re good. You’re good. Okay, next one – ARV?
Alex: ARV? I think it’s a cop thing. I think it’s a cop … Cop.
Kaleb: Yes – ‘Armed Response Vehicle’.
Kaleb: Man, you’re good.
Alex: I was not even sure about that. I’ve been playing a cop for 10 years. And all I can do is bullshit my way through this.
Kaleb: Okay, last one- LFA?
Alex: LFA? I never heard it before, so I’m going to say D & D
Kaleb: Oh, it was a cop term – ‘Larceny From Automobile’.
Alex: If I’d stolen more shit out of cars, I would’ve known.
Kaleb: Yeah. Well, I just wanted to have some fun. I appreciate the time today. It was very insightful, man. Like, I just listened to you talk martial arts and everything. Just really … Man, it was really awesome. Because you can tell it means a lot to you. And it’s influenced your life.
And that’s kind of a whole purpose right now is, trying to let people hear some messages of some encouragement and how it can help. And, you know, and … and also, people within the industry. They’re … they’re facing a very unique, challenging time right now, with schools and you know, what they’re gonna do, you know, financially and health-wise.
Just … there’s a lot of things going on. I think this is going to give people a lot of encouragement. Is there anything you’d like to close with?
Alex: Yeah, man. I think the last thing I’d like to say…. Thanks for having me on, by the way. I really appreciate it. It’s been a lot of fun… Is, you know, if you got kids, get him into Karate or Taekwondo. And … and just see what happens. That … that’s … I would love to say it here, how it goes.
Kaleb: Man, I appreciate it. I hope you guys have a great day. And I’ll definitely be staying in touch
Alex: Bye, Bro. Thanks so much, man.
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